Worthy Kennels On Internet Dog Purchases and Internet Dog Business Dealings. Home | Health Guarantees| Females | Males | Current Litters| Upcoming Litters| Dogs for sale | Contact | Prices, Payments, Deposits | Testimonials Past Litters A-H | Past Litters I-P | Past Litters Q-? | Links | Alaska Pictures| More Alaska Pictures | Buying Dogs-Dog Business on the Internet| What the heck does THAT mean?| Fun videos and stuff |
Be careful when: Importing dogs, dealing with dog brokers, dog trainers, and buying dogs over the Internet. We at
Worthy Kennels and many of our friends and contacts have experienced both the WONDERFUL and the AWFUL
consequences of using the international tool of the Internet over the last few years, and we would like to share some
of our experiences with you. At the end of sharing our experiences, here is a checklist of things my friends and I now
know to check BEFORE we hand over our money or we sign that contract. There are just so many of us who have
been taken by the shark infested waters of the dog world. Even people with 30 years experience can be taken by a
clever crook!
You are welcome to call me and ask me questions concerning these issues.
Thank you to those who helped me put this checklist together from their own experiences as well as my own.
Index of checklist:
Preview: Good and bad experiences from purchases made over the Internet.
1. Buying puppies.
2. Hip certifications.
3. Devious Dishonest Dirty Dog Broker/Dog Trainer Tricks. Probably 50% of all dog brokers are
dishonest to downright dirty scoundrels, and many trainers are also.
4. Contracts, USA and Germany.
5. Help with bad dog breeders.
6. Indications of bad dog trainers, handlers, etc.
7. Beschingung help.
8. How to register/transfer a German Import into the AKC.
9. How to register/transfer a Hungarian Import (MNJK--MEOE) into the AKC.
10. Doing a Special Litter Registration (sire of the puppies is in another country!)
11. How to register a litter conceived in the USA by using frozen semen from a foreign dog with the AKC.
12. Playing the "Family Protection Dog Game" to win! Titled Schutzhund dogs over the age of six, being
sold as family protection dogs are NOT worth $5000-8,000 and up. How to spot an unethical seller
of protection dogs.
Bad experience 1:
We have purchased an older retired SVV3 bitch, from an internationally known kennel in Indiana, that was 8 years
old, who might or might not have another litter for just $1000. This dog seemed really neat, I thought she would be
perfect for skijoring with my daughter and sleeping in her bed at night. I received pictures, copies of her papers, etc.
through email. The Kennel appeared to be legitimate. We arranged to have the bitch shipped to us via air cargo. I
purchased a series 500 crate from UPCO and had it sent to the dog owner. Five months later, after Eight
CANCELED air cargo reservations, and much frustration, this dog mysteriously "died" of a tumor that burst open on
her head. This tumor was previously unmentioned. I contacted the Indiana State Attorney General's Office, who
negotiated with this woman and her father who helps her with her cons. I managed to get all but $300 of my
purchase price back before she learned that the Indiana Attorney General has no real jurisdiction over that kind of
thing. This is a picture of the dog that was sent to me. If you see this dog for sale, don't buy her, I've already own
this dead dog, and the woman still owes me $300.
Nubi z. Milberku and son pictures.
Update on this scam: I had a call back in 2007 from a person who thanked me for this warning about
Nubi z Milberku. She told me that her friend almost bought this same dead dog, until she told this person
to look at my website. The friend avoided buying poor, many times sold, dead dog Nubi.
Good Experience 1:
In arranging to purchase one dog, we were offered Fina, who has the kind of credentials and bloodlines we didn't
think we could afford to purchase. The German seller was true to his word, and everything went very smoothly. We
were thrilled to have this dog in our breeding program and in our family.
Important things we and other people we know have learned the hard way. You are welcome to call us and ask us
about it.
1. When buying puppies: Never purchase a puppy from someone who wants to
meet you away from their home, or will not let you see their facilities. Read their
guarantees carefully.
2. Hip certifications. Always ask for copies of the foreign registration papers with the hip stamp on
them, don't buy the dog without them. Something is wrong if a dog over one year of age in/from
Germany still does not have his/her hip stamp/SV evaluation. It's a warning bell! If this is a dog born
in the USA, requesting that the dog pass a PennHip if under a two years, or an OFA evaluation if over
two years is not an unreasonable request. Don't accept hip x-rays sent via email as proof that the dog
will pass OFA certification.
3. Dishonest broker/dog trainer tricks. Probably 50% of all dog brokers are dishonest and many trainers are also.
** One of the tricks that dirty dog brokers use is to have a standard operating
procedure where they talk to you on the phone about the dog you want to buy,
and tell you that the dog has (PICK ONE:) good hips and elbows/other good health
statements/fertile breeding dog/great temperament sport prospect or
family protective companion, but do not send an email with this information.
That way there is no record of this conversation and the broker can later claim that you knew the dog had not (PICK
ONE:) been certified/was not in good health/non-breeding-sterile when you bought it. Keep all e-mails from your dog
purchase transactions just in case you find you have been dealing with a scoundrel after all. Sometimes they slip up
a bit and (PICK ONE:) verify the status of the hips and elbows/ health status/fertility/bad temperament despite
themselves.
The con-artist dog broker/trainer also uses honest people who he actually did sell a good dog to, who will lull your
suspicions because they themselves are honest and did get a good deal this time, (or have not yet discovered that
they got a bad deal).
** Dog switch #1: Using a dummy dog. A dog with good hips/elbows who matches the color and markings of
several dogs, (black and tan GSD, dark sable GSD, etc) and who has a faded ear tattoo is used to substitute for
dogs with great pedigrees but who have health issues, bad hips or elbows that did not pass a preliminary x-ray
evaluation.
** Dog switch #2: Dog trainers and/or dog brokers with ties to dog trainers will use a "dummy dog" to pass trials in
the name of the dog that you purchased and paid to have titled and breed surveyed. You get a dog with all the titles,
show ratings, and breed surveys that you paid for, who never went to a trial.
****If the dog broker or trainer does not want to let you know the physical location of the dog that you own, then
there is a problem. They can use some great excuses, but the reason they don't want you to know is so that you
cannot check up on the dog. There is no reason in the world to prevent you from knowing where your dog is
****Don't feel like an idiot if you have been taken...deception is the livelihood of these guys, they've been practicing it
for many years.
THERE REALLY ARE SOME VERY HONEST DOG BROKERS AND TRAINERS OUT THERE. When you find the
honest, efficient ones, they are a blessing.
You can run a search on the message board at www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd (PDB) for the person you are
buying a dog from. If there are no accusations of dishonesty on there, it does not mean the dog broker/seller/trainer
is honest, but if there ARE bad accusations, be very cautious. On the PDB, some accusations against some
brokers, breeders, trainers, etc get erased by the owner of the website. Other accusations are not erased and are
left intact on the website. Not all reports of bad deals are reported on the PDB, and many are erased, but it is a
good place to start. You can also inquire on the website concerning what experiences people may have had with
this seller.
4. Get a contract when purchasing a dog, even though they are hard to enforce.
No money should exchange hands without a contract in the USA. Have them scan it in and send it via email.
In Germany, however, the culture is different, and a contract is often not used. He or she should be able to furnish
you with references from well-known and respected members of the GSD community, such as an SV judge. Go get
the dog you are buying out of Europe if you can afford it.
5. If you purchased the dog within the USA, and have a problem the seller won't come good on, the Attorney
General of the state that person resides in may scare some money out of them. You can find the Attorney General's
contact information via the Internet. You can also contact the Internet Fraud department of that state. If the person
is convicted, an order of restitution as well as a criminal conviction is the result.
6. When contracting for dog services: trainers, handlers, co-ownerships-- AVOID a
business or co-ownership which puts the burden of responsibility for all liability
issues on YOU, the owner, even when you are not in physical possession of the
dog. Contracts should be fair and reasonable. If they are not, then you are not dealing with a fair and reasonable
person.
7. If the seller of a dog from Germany did not furnish you with a Beschenigung, it is
probably no biggie, so long as all the proper signatures are on the back of the SV
registration. You can get an AKC Beschenigung for dogs imported from Germany from this address:
Verein für Deutsche Shäferhunde (s.V)
Steinerne Furt 71
86167 Augsburg, Germany
Address it to Frau Sabine Leib. Her email contact for questions:akc@schaeferhunde.de
You will need this to get your Beschenigung:
A) A complete copy of the SV registration, notarized.
B) A copy of the AKC Foreign Dog Registration Application. You need to have
completed it, and have the address of the first USA owner on it.
C) Your credit card information.
(If you do not receive the beschinigung within 3 weeks from the SV, email Frau Leib! It's probably
lost!)
8) You will need this to get your AKC registration for your dog imported from Germany:
A) Copy of the foreign dog registration.
B) The AKC foreign dog registration application completed.
C)The Beschenigung.
D) Pictures of the dog standing: right side, left side, and full frontal view.
The AKC now requires that dogs imported into the USA must be DNA processed when they whelp puppies to
register the puppies with the AKC. The dog may already be DNA certified out of country, but you must do it
again for the AKC.
9) Registering an Import dog from Hungary, with a MEOE/MNJK registration, into the AKC.
Registering a dog from Hungary may seem scary, but it is not really that much more
difficult than registering a dog from Germany. You follow much the same routine as
registering a dog from Germany, and expect it to take much longer.
CAUTION!
1. Be sure the back of the registration has been Last page of the MNJK registration with signatures.
signed by the previous owner!
2. The AKC does NOT register dogs from the
MNJK without the affiliation of theMEOE or FCI,
according to what persons more experienced
than I have told me.
Check the first page of the MNJK registration,
it should have MEOE and/or FCI on
the paperwork. This is a registration that can be
transferred into the AKC with no
problems.
First page of MNJK registration with FCI
and MEOE emblems.
This is what you need, and need to do, to register your MNJK Imported German Shepherd dog:
A) Send a letter to--
Attention: Judit Vall, with all of your personal information,
the name and registration number of the dog, and the ORIGINAL MNJK registration to:
MNJK
Budapest
Pilisi UTCA 52
H-1106
Hungary
(phone numbers, email, website):
+361/261-5460
mnjk@nemetjuhasz.hu / mnjk@ax.hu
www.germanshepherd.hu
They will stamp the registration papers "EXPORT PEDIGREE" and return it AND a
beischenigung to you.
B) Email the MNJK for the bank information you will need to WIRE the transfer fees to
the MNJK bank. It currently costs $90 USD. They will hold the paperwork until they receive
the bank wiretransfer. They do NOT accept credit cards or any other form of payment:
mnjk@ax.hu
CURRENTLY (subject to change, or course, so you should still check via email) This is the
information you need for a foreign wire transfer to the MNJK account in Hungary:
Bank account: OTP BANK 11710002-20008316 Swift Code: VHUHB
C) Once you get the Export Pedigree and the Beschenigung returned to you from the
MNJK, now you send to the AKC:
1. The AKC foreign dog registration application completed.
2. The Beschenigung.
3. The Export Pedigree.
4. Pictures of the dog standing: right side, left side, and full frontal view.
5. And of course, payment to the AKC. :-)
The AKC now requires that dogs imported into the USA must be DNA processed when they whelp
puppies to register the puppies with the AKC. The dog may already be DNA certified out of country, but
you must do it again for the AKC.
10) Doing a Special Litter Registration:
It now takes even longer to register a litter conceived in another country. You can no longer send in all
the paperwork at once and expect it back within about six to twelve weeks. You have to submit your
paperwork one at a time sequentially:
a. Register the foreign female.
b. When the dog has a registration number, you send off the DNA sample for the
DNA confirmation, which can take 6-8 weeks! If you have a litter registration
pending, keep calling/emailing. They don't let you know when they are done.
c. When they have confirmed the DNA sample...THEN you send in the
Special litter registration application with the breeding certificate and the copy
of the sire's complete registration which shows at least four generations in
the pedigree.
For heaven's sake, make copies of ALL of the paperwork you send in to any registry! I have had this
happen:
a. The US mail lost my Beischenigung. I had to pay for it again, though the efficient SV had did not
require me to resubmit my paperwork, as they had it on file.
b. The AKC lost my paperwork to register my foreign dog, with the photos, Beischenigung,everything.
They were very gracious in helping me recreate the paperwork, and processed it quickly after it was
resubmitted with more photos. Ask for Brenda in the Registration department, she is very helpful
and friendly.
**Expect the AKC to take longer than the SV to process your paperwork. You will probably have six
weeks or more in the paperwork process of registering your German import with the AKC.
11) How to register a litter conceived in the USA using frozen semen from a foreign dog with the AKC.
The usual foreign breeding certificate is not needed to register your litter with the AKC.
Why?
Because you are the owner of the semen.
You do not have to have an AKC approved facility in a foreign country. That is only for frozen semen
extracted from AKC registered dogs in the USA.
A licensed foreign vet must be the one to extract the semen. He fills out a form for the frozen semen that
should be available at the facility that freezes the semen, or have a form of his own. This not a form the
AKC provides, but should be available through the foreign vet or the foreign storage facility.
The foreign vet must state on this form the supply (and perhaps an simple signed letter will do with the
proper information). It must have the date of extraction, how many straws are being sent for how many
breedings, the motility of the sperm.
Letter from the stud owner(s).
The owner of the stud must submit to the AKC a copy of a five generation pedigree that is certified (a
copy of the pedigree on the foreign papers should be sufficient since this is a certified pedigree stamped
when issued by the foreign registry) and an AKC DNA kit.
All the owners of the stud must sign a letter that states that ownership of the frozen semen is being
transferred to you as the new owner. This letter authorizes you to have the frozen semen, how many
straws were sent for how many breedings.
This letter, which is not a form but a simple letter, authorizes the AKC owner to fill out the AKC
"Application to Register a Litter Resulting from AI Using Frozen Semen" and sign AS THE SEMEN OWNER.
A licensed vet must inseminate the bitch with the frozen semen.
Your Application for the Registration of a litter from Frozen Semen AI must be filled out and signed by the
inseminating vet in the USA. All of that particular information is on the form from the AKC:
http://www.akc.org/pdfs/frozsem.pdf
You cannot get frozen semen from Germany at this time. Artificial Insemination is not allowed in
Germany, and it is not allowed to be sent internationally. AKC has no problems with registering puppies
from a dog registered with the SV, but the SV would penalize a German breeder for doing it.
12) Playing the "Family Protection Dog Game" to win!
Schutzhund titled dogs that are past 6 years of age and being sold as family protection dogs for
$5000-$8000 OR MORE in the USA were obtained in Germany (or elsewhere) for much less than that
amount.
Many places in Germany only allow a person to own one dog, so if someone wants to raise a new dog for
their training ambitions, they must first let an excellent older titled companion go. Many older dogs are
available for reasonable prices in Germany.
These dogs do make excellent protective family companions and household defenders, who have been
trained and trialed in protection and are much more likely to leap to your defense than an untrained and
untested dog. They often have many more years of good health and capability left in their lives. I believe,
however, it is highway robbery to charge US buyers $5000-$8000 OR MORE for one of these older dogs.
People importing dogs for resale do take a lot of risks and invest a lot of money in the selection process,
so an honest profit should be made, but the amounts mentioned above are too much.
You should pay less for an older dog, or look for a younger dog who IS worth that kind of money. A dog
that is four years old or younger, with the Schutzhund title as well, or prepared for protection titling/work
in protection even if lacking a title, are worth that much or more, as are (younger) dogs that are specially
trained in home and personal protection work. Their value depends upon their talents, titles, and training.
The "Protection Level This or That" as a description of the dog for sale can be a valid evaluation...or it can
be a line of hokey when the dogs have not really been evaluated, and have had little if any specialized
training.
I have heard of Schutzhund titled dogs that would probably make pretty good family protection dogs
promoted as "Level II or Level III Protection Dogs", with a price of $10,000, who are probably worth about
$3000--$5000, and you can find that dog's equal all over the place for the second, more realistic price as
well.
You know you are talking to an unethical seller if a person gets MAD when you:
* Argue-discuss with them the purchase/price of their protection dog for sale,
* if you talk about waiting awhile to think about it,
* or turn their dog down--
The seller is a con artist who is charging 2-5 times more for a dog than it is worth.
Another thing I have noticed in these protection dog interactions are the situations where you mention
another dog that someone else has for sale, and which you are considering. Unsubstantiated statements
like: "That dog probably obtained his title at a midnight trial (or crate trial)." (Was HE present at this
"midnight trial", and if so, which of HIS dogs got a title it did not earn?) This indicates something shady
about the person who said it. Someone who has a good dog does not feel the need to knock someone
else's dog down in order to make a sale.
People who are reputable and on the up and up are calm and non-aggressive concerning selling their
dogs...they know what their dogs are worth! If you don't appreciate it for that price, someone else will, so
there is nothing to get upset about.
Dogs for breeding purposes, even six years or older, might be worth that price or much more if they are
good producers or are highly titled/accomplished.
Good luck and God bless you in your search!
